Recieved a question on leading out

Questions about Skat rules

Recieved a question on leading out

Postby skatlink1 » 12 May 2014 12:20

Leading out wrong or not following suit are 2 of the most common mistakes.
Rarely is this a cheating move, especially leading out wrong,most of the time leading out wrong is an error and someone is just not paying attention.I have seen it as a cheating move but only a few times.not following suit on purpose a lot more.
the defence realized the player was dead in his null, if they could just get on the lead and play out the seven.they also realized that there was no way to get onto the lead ,so they just played out the seven,the player took it and didn't even realize the wrong player came out,and thought he lost the game.It just happened to be while I was dealing and watching(rare that I watch,but a good thing to do),Now I could have easily let that player take the loss.But the player doing the out of turn leading was a good player and I could see they knew what they had done,(I actually waited a bit to see if they would confess ,they didn't) and I want a clean game on my table ,so I said hey the wrong person lead. He wins his null.No one argued actually both players knew this and no one was going to say a thing, cause this guy was so upset he lost.
We gave him the win and he actually went on to win the tournament by 25 points .
My point is that leading out wrong can be a form of cheating,so that is why this rule exists.Now leading out of turn on the first lead can also be a bit a cheating, as we all know some hands are better with the lead,and often you have a grand in forehand and not in the middle hand.So again this is why the rule exists.
But so many people lose this game because of this rule because they are not paying attention.
This is why I recommend you make it a habit to always ask Who has the lead?
Now I received a question the other day. they were playing on a 3 table, where this mistake is quite common and therefore I often say on a 3 table everone gets 1 free mistake on the wrong lead out.Most agree cause it can be difficult to know who starts the lead without the score sheet in front of you. And like I said it is a common mistake.
Now the player actually asks who come out first. the writer looks at the sheet and say you do. he leads and they realize the last hand wasn't written in ,so in actuality he doesn't lead out. Now they want to give him the loss. (skat friends)
According to the rules, leading out of turn ends the game, tricks are counted and a winner is determined. On the first lead no tricks need to be counted ,the player would loose. But in this case another rule has been broken. Defence or in this case the writer had made a verbal comment that influences the game ,which is also not allowed . you can not tell someone hearts is trump when your playing clubs, you can not tell someone to smear when they shouldn't. Verbal influences are not allowed.
So when you are told to come out and you are not suppose to. the defence actually caused you to loose that game and that's not fair.
so if you were told to come out wrong,you are the solist and if only your card has been exposed, your card can be taken back and the right lead can come out and continue play. if you lead out and 1 of the players follows suit.you can not take the cards back as 1 of the defence has exposed there cards and now play must continue in this this manner. If both players played a card on your wrong lead.and no one stops play at that time. the wrong lead has been accepted and there is actually no infraction at all.Play continues as is.(if it was deemed to be done on purpose by the defence, a ref may be called an instant win may be awarded,but here you have to prove intent, most ref's will consider it an honest error and let play continue) this is why you do not through the cards in and say you loose,because that shows intent to mislead the player.and now you have exposed your cards to your partner.
ALWAYS keep your cards concealed and your tricks in order when calling a ref.You are more likely to win your case as it shows your intent for fair play and honest rulings.
Rules have changed over the years, long ago it was more cutthroat rulings , you came out wrong you lost end of story. penalties were harsher and players took advantage of the rules.This is why we now are able to look at the last trick so we can determine who's lead it actually is.We really want to use the rules to keep the flow of the game going and yet still prevent cheating.Now its just funny when you lay down a perfect null overt in middle hand and they tell you its your lead.years ago if you did lead out they would laugh and give you a loss,and say you better pay attention.Those days are hopefully over and people stop taking advantage of the new guys.
Call a ref that's why we have them.
skatlink1
 
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010 12:05

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