Finesse /schnible

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Finesse /schnible

Postby skatlink1 » 31 Oct 2013 14:10

What is finesse or schnible?
This is when you take a trick with a lower card in your hand,or you stay under in hopes of catching a higher valued card on the next trick.
the most common finesse is :ca :ck :c8 or :ca :ck if the soloist /player leads out the 9 of clubs rather than you taking the trick with the Ace you take the trick with the King in hopes to catch the 10 in the next trick.this is a very common move in skat. here you make 2 tricks instead of 1 .IF the soloist did not discard the 10.
The question is Why and When to schnible ? and a big question sometimes is who to finesse?
2 main reasons why we schnible? 1) you will get a better valued trick next time,or catch the 10. 2) you don't give the player control of that suit example the player has :h10 :hk :hq and you have :ha :h7 :h8 ,if you double finesse stay under the King and Q lead ,you will catch the 10 on the 3rd trick,giving you max value for your 1 heart trick.
The rule of thumb is to finesse the soloists lead and not your partners lead. meaning if you partner leads the suit,you should put on the ace. if the player leads the suit it ok to finesse . Why? for a few reasons .IF your partner leads this suit he is either long or short in that suit. If he is long the player will now have to Trump the suit,And if your partner is short,You will make that trick and lead it back and your partner will now be able to trump that players trick.
This is why opening leads should be long or short.
This is also why you as the player or soloist should not schnible on the first lead.(sometimes to win a hand that is weak or to try to make 90 one can finesse the first lead but it is not recommended )
Finessing should not be a guessing game.Too many players make this mistake and finesse everything,and ofcourse there are those that also make the mistake of finessing nothing. That's why we make simple playing rules to follow to give you the edge until you become great at knowing WHEN?<WHO? HOW? to finesse.
Don'T finesse your partner and Don't finesse the opening lead.
Now for the Deep schnible.This is for the advanced player There are 3/4 types of deep schnible .A deep finesse is where it takes 2 leads to be rewarded for your finesse. These are the deep finesse cards :ca :ck :c7 ,stay under with the seven and make 2 tricks with ace and king
:sa :sq :s9 ,stay under the king lead and make 2 tricks with Q ,ace
:d10 :dq :d8 take trick with queen and then make trick with 10
:ha :h7 :h8 like above stay under twice and catch the 10
ALL DEEP FINESSES ARE RISKY and you may end up losing good tricks,but at the right time its a fantastic move.(good player expect you to finesse and discard cards that make you think you should finesse,so be aware of possible discards)
AS a beginner a good rule of thumb is see the picture(K<Q) take the trick with the Ace ,UNTILL you learn to finesse properly. Why? because a 14 or 15 pt trick is over half that suits value and a bird in the hand is always better than the one on the fence.
The most obvious sign to schnible is when the player has tricked off the other 2 suits.example clubs is trump,spades is lead the player trumps that suit,then hearts is lead and that suit is also trumped. then this is a sign to finesse the diamonds like crazy,even deep schnible.
Now there is one other finesse that is used by pro's only
:s10 :s8 here the player leads out a small spade,you put on the 8 rather than the 10.what you are hoping for is that the player thinks a deep schnible just occurred and therefore they throw away another trick in hopes to catch your 10.This can only be played against good player that understand the deep finesse concept.
STICK with basic finesse rules and you'll do well.Once you follow those basics you can venture off into guessing where and when to finnese.Remember don't guess when schnibling .Know when and who to schnible.
skatlink1
 
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010 12:05

Re: Finesse /schnible

Postby Mike Tobias » 03 Nov 2013 06:38

Capturing declarer's 10 in the third round of the suit, for a 30pt final trick to defeat the contract is my favourite trick in Skat. It doesn't happen often, but very satisfying when it does.
Mike Tobias
 
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Joined: 13 Jun 2012 04:23

Re: Finesse /schnible

Postby skatlink1 » 16 Dec 2015 04:01

I now rarely try to capture the 10 on the 3rd trick. especially if this suit is opened early in the game and in a colour game.In a grand waiting for the 3rd trick works.But in a colour game ONLY 1 finesse is more effective and safer.example same scenario as before
soloist leads from :h10 :hk :hq say the :hk your partner follows suit with :h7 and your hand is :ha :h9 :h8 .Finesse with the :h8 now they lead :hq
Your partner should now smear an ace or ten telling you he is able to and wants to trump. that's now 24 or 25pts and now you lead back the :h9 soloist follows with his :h10 and your partner trumps,this can potentially lead to 46 cards pts.which is huge in the early stages of the game ,way better than the 31pts in the double finesse.and so often if the soloist double leads a suit with :hk :hq his :h10 is probably discarded trying to set you up for a double finesse.
So as you can see we have many variables which tells both parties how to play the hand and how to react to the play.
:hq lead will create an instant finesse
:hk is the proper lead to see if the suit is split, as if a defender has only :ha little it is not a normal time to finesse as more than likely you will make less card pts.if you only have 2 its not a finesse move that works well.like I say see the king take home the ace
Its an early lead and trump are still out this can be only 1 of 2 things.he wants to set up his side suit for Schneider and control,or he is setting you up for a false deep schnibble In a grand it is more likely for the first reason and that is why we deep finesse in the grands
In a colour game its more than likely the 2nd reason,especially if he leads the suit a second time without fear of the deep finesse,and even if its not a set up,you are still better of taking the trick the second time and leading it right back.
And again its your partner that has to react properly, on the second lead if he is able to trump he must smear.If he puts nothing in the second lead,he forces you to deep finesse,therefore playing bad,or has no smear or no trump.he could be telling you his trumps and smears are winners in his eyes already.In the middle or late stages of the game its a no brainer to now deep finesse.If I read that my partner is strong in trump and just has no smear.I use my 3rd option which is to take the trick and switch suits to where I have an ace or ten.If your partner is strong in trump don't make him trump
skatlink1
 
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